It is one of the great dichotomies of the Bible, like other tensions that we seem unable to understand or explain well. Thanks again. It is evident that they are showered even on unrepentant sinners. God's love cannot be isolated from His wrath and vice versa. Andy: Well, those three we dont require to go to church with us. As a Theological Determinist, Baker believes that neurological impulses which occur in our brains do not originate from ourselves. The Lord loves the sons of Israel, though they turn to other gods (Hosea 3:1). Sin could not be viewed as any less Gods will or desire than righteousness, if both are equally brought to pass by his determinitive power. Does God Love Everyone: Answers To Your Curiosity (2023) - Bible Keeper Thank you for your question. This is how you are to deal with those who sin unintentionally by doing anything that violates one of the Lords commands. No.just Hes our guy!. God is working all things together for their good. More importantly, the disciples themselves once belonged to the world but were drawn out of it (e.g., John 15:19). Man can however have A-Posteriori knowledge (i.e., knowledge after the fact by empirical evidence) of what was predestined. I know my own and my own know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep (John 10:1415). 13. Now mark it well, Christ did not say, offereth life unto the world, but giveth. Stoic: No man knows who Zeus has predestined for eternal bliss and who he has ordained for eternal damnation. Therefore Christ outside Jerusalem saying I would have called you like a mother hen .but you would not, does NOT mean He tried and they wouldnt come (It cant!! : The Heart of What's Wrong with Calvinism: Walls, Jerry L.: 9781620325506: Amazon.com: Books Books Christian Books & Bibles Protestantism Enjoy fast, FREE delivery, exclusive deals and award-winning movies & TV shows with Prime Try Prime and start saving today with Fast, FREE Delivery Buy new: $17.00 Man is nothing and God is everything in the matter of salvation, the underlying problem here isnt interpretation of this truth but believing this truth., Ironically you say the problem is believing this truth.. B) My car is predestined to always turn to the left. ! Thats ridiculous! The Calvinist idea that dead men dont make choices cannot be true since these impure spirits (dead, right?) 1. Universal love is the basis behind a universal atonement, which is the basis for asserting a universal salvific will, which is the basis behind a universal offer of the gospel, but before a Calvinist then connects the dots to Universalism, Traditionalists do not say that salvation is universal, but only the offer of the gospel is universal, based upon the universal principles which undergird it, and therefore there is a perfectly logical distinction from Universalism if we say that only those who meet the conditions of the well-meant offer of the gospel will be saved. The way Calvinists meet this challenge, for the most part, is by formulating deceptive talking-points. And if we talk about the love of God in His terms of the love of complacency and talk about it universally, that's blasphemy because God does not love the whole world in the love of complacency. Copyright 2021, Oneplace.com. Good point! This was a good book. but no other possibilities. Even your referral to the manna from heaven confirms this idea. Unlike the divine determinist [aka Calvinist], the divine indeterminist is not forced into a sort of DOUBLE-MINDEDNESS about the purposiveness of human sin by making such a response; for he does not maintain that God positively intends and causes human sin. When it is actually Doctrines of Good-Evil. So you will find many Calvinists can be quite sensitive about the Evil part of their doctrine. There must be a hierarchy recognized in the attributes of God with love defining (limiting if you will) how omnipotence, omniscience, and benevolence are understood. Calvins god has DUAL wills. So we will naturally see divine love as appearing in the form of good-evil pairs. To him be glory forever. How come a baby sometimes throws a temper tandem,lack of patients?Do you know everything that baby is saying?No but God does.How do you know what they are speaking at all times in their heart when they cry,is it not the attitude of a child as they think they are to be first and self centered,self demanding,self serving,which is a lie as only God deserves to be served first and foremost and as soon as they are old enough to verbally communicate do we have to teach them to lie? Most people really arent half as bad as Calvinists think they are. Allow all the room you like for the Semitic nature of this contrast, observing the absolute form can be a way of articulating absolute preference, andyetGods love in such passages is peculiarly directed toward the elect. Anyone who has kids (after all we call Him Father) loves his kids and would die for them.but cannot make them love him. On top of that, religious liberalism, humanism, evangelical compromise, and ignorance of the Scriptures have all worked against a right understanding of who God is. And that term, the love of complacency, is not used in the way in which we use the term complacency in our age, in our culture. I have a special love for my wife, but I hope I love all women appropriately. Nor does it matter, for our perception of love must come from He who is love; this indeed we have in Jesus recorded words: Greater love has no one than this: to lay down ones life for ones friends.. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world. Jhn 6:33, 51 NKJV, and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. 2Co 5:15, 19 NKJV, And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1Jo 2:2 NKJV. Copyright 2023 The Gospel Coalition, INC. All Rights Reserved. Because he who is without sin let him cast the first stone. Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1930), 29-30. They are considered by the leading scholars as in the genre of poetic texts. Is God kind to those he destines to torment for all eternity without any regard to their own choices, intentions, or actions? And what He has seen and heard, that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony. So Im thinking you didnt mean to use that word eternal to form your question which seems to be about losing salvation after it is received. Im deeply concerned about a growing trend Ive noticed particularly among people committed to the biblical truth of Gods sovereignty and divine election. January 23, 2021 Lab by John Piper Founder & Teacher, desiringGod.org What is Look at the Book? It is by Fisher Humphreys and Paul E. Robertson. Which is of course what Sproul eventually came to. Good News!! Grace to You John MacArthur Love is the best known but least understood of all God's attributes. Pastor: But Im not talking about their physical well being. In short, Jesus is teaching us to self-sacrificially love everyone, even our worst enemies, because that reflects the very nature of God Himself. He also recognized that God's electing, saving love is uniquely bestowed on His chosen ones. You must be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy. so be wise!!!! God has given to the world the light which if received gives true light to every man coming into the world. Does God love Christians in a different way than He loves non-Christians? -quote strike them with even greater blindness. Yes it does. 4) How do we know what is predestined? Both yours and my sin nature went that way! We must maintain a carefully balanced perspective as we pursue our study of God's love. In other words, didhe love Nero to the same degreehe loves Billy Graham? All those things are infinitely true about God, of course, but not in the way most people think. . No. 3. Tim Doctrine doesnt by itself alter an eternal state. Both God's wrath and His love work to the same ultimate end His glory. Ping back on Dr. Flowers article Satan is redundant in Calvinism. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. A. By the power He gives us?. As Jesus taught, Greater love has no one than this: to lay down ones life for ones friends. It seems safe to say that love at its very root is self-sacrificial. They go through their whole lives having thousands of infallibly decreed FALSE PERCEPTIONS of being chosen for salvation and are not permitted to know the truth until they wind up in the lake of fire. Was there a footnote for the origin of Prosers quote? To those who are called, beloved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ (Jude 1:1). Obedience is part of the relational structure of knowing God; it doesnt have to do with how we come to know him, but with our relationship with him once we know him. Does God truly love all persons? But it still bothers me that whether theyre elected to hell or go there through a lack of belief, the percentages quoted for people saved seem depressingly low. I am not being biased and just going to Calvinist Websites or listening to Reformed Sermons and reading Calvinist Books. But I thought everything people did was what He ordained? . I am so glad to be free of that judgmental, condemning little circle of Pharisees who think they are better than others, who so confidently reject all other opinions as a rejection of the truth. That concept is logically incoherent within the scheme of Universal Divine Causal Determinism (aka Calvinism). If God loves the unbelievers intimately then the sinners does not have to repent, as God loves them anyway, he can continue in his sins. The Israelites had to go get it! In no sense does belief in divine sovereignty rule out the love of God for all humanity. Imagine having some children whom you love, nurture, and lavish all that you possess upon, and others who were merely produced to do the work around the place. Does God Love the Wicked the Same Way He Loves the Elect. You may remember that on Friday we talked about whether non-Christians can honor God. Ironically, in the name of happiness, parents are directing their adult children to a life that has less of it. -quote In this brief clip from our 2017 National Conference, R.C. Since this DOUBLE-MINDEDNESS seems to be an unacceptable implication of both the attempt to construct a positive theodicy and the appeal to skeptical theism, I conclude that the divine determinist should not make either move. Created in His image to be hated! As the confession says: Calvinism from its roots contains elements of DUALISM. You keep referring to an offer of salvation when in fact it is a gift of God to the elect not an offer. If all men are born Totally Depraved (and I deny that they are) it would have to be because God desired, ordained and caused them to be so. Does God love everyone in the same wayboth His redeemed people and His enemies? Do you believe that too? Many in the battle against lust try to shut off the imagination, but what if God means for you to win the battle through imagination. (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979 reprint), 123. Just watchany response to this from Calvinists will be to say what these verses do NOT mean. Prior to entering ministry, he spent nearly 20 years as a newspaper journalist in Georgia, North Carolina, and Kentucky. The sun falls on the unjust as well as upon the just. Take for example he stretches the heavens out as a scroll Its a very unstable use of scripture. What John does not realize is that not all people live in big houses with pools in So California. 11 Whenever the impure spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, You are the Son of God.12 But he gave them strict orders not to tell others about him. And, as FOH suggests, we must keep in mind the distinctives of the language of scripture. Because that is the case and because many things come in the form of Good-Evil pairs you are going to find Calvinists who have a kind of love-hate relationship with the doctrine. And so gracious in their condemnation of all who dont see it their way. https://mikejeshurun.wordpress.com/2011/02/03/a-w-pink-god-does-not-love-everybody/. You have a choice. Calvinism is wedded to Theological Determinism and a compatibilist definition of free will. I, for one, will not discard the words of Jesus in order to revere the teachings of men like Augustine, Calvin, Luther or MacArthur. The Lord Jesus commands his disciples to remain in his love (John 15:9), adding: If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Fathers commands and remain in his love (John 15:10). This article originally appeared here at Grace to You. Not to mention that you drive the point of context, context, context home with so many difficult passages. I encounter that view, it seems, with increasing frequency. That has to be true, since there is certainly nothing in any sinner worthy of even the smallest degree of divine love. . Taking their stand on John 3:16 they argue that the traditional Baptist view is that God loves all people and desires the welfare of all. I have even met agnostics who are quite certain that if God exists, He must be benevolent, compassionate, and loving. Itsprimarily the moral order in willful and culpable rebellion against God. That is according to the secret council of god! He specifically designs the MANY of his creatures for eternal torment in the lake of fire. This: a thing which is offered may be refused, but a thing given, necessarily implies its acceptance. Where [X] is predestined, there is no alternative to [X] that can obtain in lieu of [X]. 3) Calvinisms preeminent assertion is that *ALL* things UNIVERSALLY (i.e., without exception) are predestined. Because for the Calvinist those words dont have their NORMATIVE meanings. It gets tiring telling the Bible what it has to mean because of the presuppositions that I am bringing to the Bible. Excellent article Leighton! Also.it begs the question: How can you reject something that is not offered? For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." Flowers, This is a very timely post for me. He specifically designs the FEW for eternal security. Do you hear any phony cries all around Impotence!.. Of course not. His blood making salvation possible see the Passover for an example), but after the counsel of His will, He created in such a way that the love needs to be reciprocal. Thus, modern Calvinism engages in endless euphemism, doublespeak and word trickery in order to conceal that which would be, to most people, unacceptable. On this view, we simply *PERCIEVE* a thought which occurs in our brain the same way we *PERCIEVE* a snowflake which lands on our nose. Related to this is the will of beneficence, which describes His good actions. Calvinist rhetorical tactics essentially boil-down to attempts to deny or camouflage one or all of the above facts. Praise Him for the many manifestations of His love, especially toward the non-elect, and rejoice in the particular manifestation of His saving love for you who believe. Also if Grace-Retribution is correct then that means that all babies, born, unborn, underage, are totally depraved and will go to hell. Please. The Gospel Coalition supports the church by providing resources that are trusted and timely, winsome and wise, and centered on the gospel of Jesus Christ. We dont come to an understanding of a brick house by focusing on one single brick. While we have breath, we should be bent on bringing as many people as we can into this amazing grace, even if it costs us our lives, because thats what it cost Jesus to bring us in. Therefore, given the lack of reasons in favor of adopting the thesis of divine determinism, as well as the serious problematic implications of the view and the lack of such problematic implications of its alternative, I conclude that divine determinism ought to be rejected.. This intra-Trinitarian love is expressed in a relationship of perfection between the Father and the Son, untarnished by sin on either side. No one would claim that the man healed himself!!! 100% of whatsoever comes to pass is UP TO a THEOS Jesus depicts a world in which God clothes the grass of the fieldwith the glory of wildflowers seen by no human, perhaps, but seen by God. In theology, we distinguish among three different kinds of Gods love. This is the product of alovingCreator. Thank you. But on the truth is the sinner does not have peace with God. BrD. Its possible (could it be!?) The double-speak is designed to craft semantic counterfeits of libertarian free will Alternate Possibilities and Do Otherwise. You may or may not know that Calvinism evolved through Augustine who evolved through different stages of intellectual pursuit. We believe that faithful proclamation of the gospel is what our hostile and disoriented world needs. This is the closing of a Debate that Dr. James White had and it is just a little over 9 mins. God's salvific stance toward his fallen world. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. Answer Actually, this is not the general agreement of Calvinists. The Bible itself uses "love" in a number of ways, so this kind of ambiguity is to be expected. Gods word counts for everything. Well, now I thinking how many Calvinist believe we who teach from Gods word that God truly desires all to repent and believe in Christ so to be saved are blasphemers ? the percentages quoted for people saved seem depressingly low. Where Person [P] is predestined to think/say/do [X], the power to Do Otherwise than [X] does not exist for [P]. If it is not accepted, it is not given, it is simply proffered. [According to] apostolic tradition, . Given that biblical definition of love as self-sacrifice, let us consider Christs command to love our enemies. Expressions of wrath and expressions of love all are necessary to display God's full glory. ?, Lest someone accuse me of being uncharitable, it should be noted that some higher forms of Calvinism do not even attempt to defend the idea that God sincerely loves everyone. . God, through his servant, tells us what true love is: Love is patient, love is kind. Anything less than that should not be called love. One may refer to kindness or care in reflection of some common provisions for humanity, but unless it reaches the level of self-sacrifice it does not seem to meet the biblical definition of true love. FOH What is interesting is that when the Calvinist uses the if God was really loving to all people then he would just save everybody claim. Sproul answers the question, Is it biblical to say that God loves everyone?, "Often I hear the phrase 'God loves you' proclaimed to a group of people which may include both Christians and non-Christians. To ask a biblical or theological question, just visit ask.Ligonier.org or message us on Facebook or Twitter. Lets remind ourselves that with all such questions, we are utterly, totally dependent on what God has chosen to reveal in his word. and not only that it, is for His good pleasure! Try it some time you might learn something. 1:23). So they will LABEL ministries like Grace to You But of course those are just man made definitions and parameters. If we interpret scripture away from literacy we can deny truth as you just have,some parts of scripture are figurative and spiritual language But it will always teaches a literal truth. Andy: Of course we love them. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. Our term of complacency means smugness, self-satisfaction, that sort of thing. Except in determinism-Calvinism where God tells them not to trust idols but (wink, wink) really wants them to (since apparently He always gets what He wants). Of course dead people (if they are dead like Calvinists say) dont reject anything. ), God tells us to love our neighbor and our enemy, yet you tell me that God only loves the elect small, small number. There could be nothing in all of creation except what God desired if Calvinism/Determinism were true. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. What a swell bunch to hang out with, huh? . Omniscience apart from love is worthless. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. Of course, this is the kind of love and justice despots have dished out to their populace since Augustine and Calvin provided justification for it. Repeatedly John states that light and life were sent, given and came from God to the world. Does the so-called love of God for the non-elect fail or does it persevere? When the doctrine actually stipulates both Grace and Damnation to you, They will LABEL it Doctrines of Grace But they frame those words in sentences inferring the NORMATIVE meaning which is a misleading use of language. Out of one side he explicitly libertarian free will and its characteristics (Alternate Possibilities, and Do Otherwise) exist only as illusions. What is the meaning of "world"? . So, Calvinism hides these untidy details and instead harks on sovereignty, glory and the like. Outside of churches, we often see signs that read, "God loves you!" and we have heard pastors and Christians tell everybody within hearing distance that God loves them. 3 Each of you must show great respect for your mother and father, and you must always observe my Sabbath days of rest. These are the logical implications of Theological Determinism. Does the love of God differ in the breadth and depth and manner of its expression? In other words, is He being hypocritical in this command? We must not respond to an overemphasis on divine love by denying that God is love. Does God Love Everyone? - Third Millennium Ministries And Calvin, himself baptized as a Catholic infant, always held that this was indeed the only baptism he needed. Please comment. verse 5: We have forgotten that "It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God" (Hebrews 10:31). Of course Calvinists disagree with (even despise) universalism (the idea that God is so loving that He will save everyone, i.e. Unfortunately, Pink took the corollary too far. A. Help TGC bring biblical wisdom to the confusing issues across the world by making a gift to our international work. 33:11). Walls discusses how Calvinists, like D. A. Carson, say that God loves everyone but only in the sense of his providential care for all people and a general salvific stance toward the creation. The author of the text frames the sentence presenting the notion that God has endowed persons with the ability to DO OTHERWISE than what they in fact do. V4. They want the doctrine to APPEAR benevolent 5. So the Calvinist mind will thus lean towards seeing attributes of god this way. I think A.W. To the Ends of the Earth: Calvins Mission Vision and Legacy, Heresy at the Heart of Derek Webbs Boys Will Be Girls, Past Lives: Mature Wisdom in an Indie Romance, Marriage Is Better for Your Adult Kids Than You May Think, 4 Questions to Answer Before Giving Your Child a Phone, Why a Post-Christian World Needs Pastor-Theologians, Why Reformed Churches Need Contextualization, With Friendship in Decline, Belonging Is a Powerful Apologetic. what you do matters. Were on a mission to change that. This is why Calvinist language has become highly evolved over the years as a form of religio-subterfuge-speak. Many Calvinistic brethren, like MacArthur in the quote above, when discussing the sincerity of Gods love for all people, seem to distance themselves from the inevitable conclusions drawn by the implications of their own systematic. We know that God is omnipotent, omniscient and graciously benevolent to all humanity, but we also know that these characteristics do not necessarily reflect the true nature of love. But then, in order to evade the THEOS as the author of evil out of the other side of his mouth he implicitly asserts the opposite. . If we are responsible for causing the snowflake to land on our nose, then we are likewise responsible for causing each thought Calvins god actualizes in our brain. The meaning is undeniable. Buyer beware is accurate. However, can Calvinism say that God genuinely loves the elect and non-elect? 10 Jesus answered and said to her, If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, Give Me a drink, you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water . I am sure I will understand the other side better nonetheless and that is always a good thing. Is God not easily angered by those who are born under His wrath and without hope of reconciliation? Jhn 3:17 NKJV, For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world. I am the living bread which came down from heaven. Paul calls it a great love in Ephesians 2:4. He died in his relational offices (King, Shepherd, Bridegroom, Head, Master, Firstborn, Cosmic Savior, and Last Adam) as a public, covenanted man for his chosen, covenantal people.